Cooking consult!

[radiantfracture]

Say I want to veganize, or at least de-dairify, Hrishikesh Hirway's mom's mango pie recipe, but not end up with liquid pie, like Hrishi did (even though that cooking failure inspired a new flavour of ice cream).

Have you made such adaptations yourself, and refined them? What would you suggest? Any Very Clever Tricks?

I'd accept animal-based gelatin, but not cream or cream cheese.

Original family version

1 ½ cups boiling hot water
1 ½ packages unflavored gelatin
4 oz. cream cheese
8 oz. Cool Whip
16 oz. mango pulp (Alphonso if available)
½ cup sugar
2 graham cracker pie crusts


{rf}

Comments

[sovay]

Say I want to veganize, or at least de-dairify, Hrishikesh Hirway's mom's mango pie recipe, but not end up with liquid pie, like Hrishi did (even though that cooking failure inspired a new flavour of ice cream).

Condensed coconut milk? I'm not sure if that would make it vilely sweet, since like condensed non-coconut milk, there's a lot of sugar involved. I just enjoy pouring it over one or more peeled mangos and eating it.

(I can't digest several common vegan substitutions, so I am otherwise unlikely to be helpful with this question.)

[radiantfracture]

I do like anything that involves subbing in coconut milk, and it sounds delicious with the mango.

[sovay]

I do like anything that involves subbing in coconut milk, and it sounds delicious with the mango.

It is delicious with mango. I'd just leave out the half-cup of sugar if so.

[elusis]

But coconut milk isn't going to do anything for firmness.

I assume vegan "cream cheese" was already tried in Hrishi's failed version? I missed that detail and just heard the results.

[radiantfracture]

But coconut.

I'm not sure I know what he did, so I'm just looking for hacks from those in the know.

What if I just added more gelatin?

[elusis]

So I replied to his Twitter post about the ice cream and asked if he'd share what he tried that didn't work, in hopes of finding an adaptation that leads to a somewhat more functional pie. :)

Vegan cream cheese and the vegan non-dairy whip options seem to me like the direction to go in, plus agar-agar instead of the gelatin. And if you're making your pie crust, vegan graham crackers plus melted plant-based butter substitute.

[elusis]

Hrishi says: "You can use agar agar! My family has used it many times, successfully, but alas, I don't think I got it to bloom correctly."

[radiantfracture]

Omg! This is the best. From HH himself! Thank you!

[elusis]

I admit that this is the thing I like about Twitter. F'ing Twitter.

[wendelah1]

You could sub Miyoko's Creamery Classic Plain Organic Cultured Vegan Cream Cheese for the dairy cream cheese. It's best in category, ymmv. Readily available at my local Target, Ralph's Market, etc. Also, I would switch out the most of the boiling water for ice cold water. (Like making quick set jello--hot water to get the gelatin to dissolve and then iced water to help it set quicker.)

If you want to ditch the Cool Whip as well, there are plenty of vegan mango pie recipes out there on the internet to use as a template. They all sound really good.

[radiantfracture]

Miyoko's Creamery Classic Plain Organic Cultured Vegan Cream Cheese

See, this is exactly the kind of insider knowledge I was looking for. Thank you so much!

Perversely, I want to make the specific Hirway pie recipe, even though I'm subbing in so many ingredients that we arguably have a pie of Theseus situation on our hands here.

[juniperberry]

Hmmm. I was vegan for several years but I never tried to do any kind of pie.

I would definitely look into vegan cookbooks for this--Isa Chandra Moskowitz does a lot of good stuff. (She actually co-wrote a book called Vegan Pie In the Sky, which I don't have but I've liked other things she's done.) Her go-tos for creamy dairy replacements tend toward soaked cashews (think: soaking cashews in water for several hours/overnight and then blending them), but more traditional cookbooks will probably lean towards silken tofu as a cream cheese replacement. Tofu would probably be a better bet if you're worried about nut allergies.

I haven't ever tried to replicate cream cheese for anything vegan so I don't know how good either of those substitutes would be, but that's where I'd start looking. I haven't tried any vegan cheeses, either, so I can't give a good account of how those would work.

I really don't know how you'd replace the Cool Whip though. :/ There might be a commercial vegan product that does that, I'd look into that before trying a whole from-scratch attempt.

[kindkit]

There are vegan Cool Whip type things. I've never tried Coco Whip myself, being an ardent dairy fan, but I've heard good things about it from folks who don't eat dairy.

[ursula]

The two things I would consider here are silken tofu and the non-vegan but non-dairy option of whipped egg whites (the latter as a Cool Whip replacement).

[elusis]

Well, egg whites can be replaced by aquafaba, and apparently they are whippable but I don't know how firm they get. OTOH there wouldn't be any sweetness or flavor to them so one would need to adjust accordingly.

[radiantfracture]

I've always been intrigued by aquafaba, but TBH what I'm probably looking for are prefab solutions on roughly the same level as the original ingredients.

[radiantfracture]

Hmm egg whites might create a nice meringue-like texture.

[jasmine_r_s]

I love everyone’s suggestions, to which I’ll add perhaps agar-agar, perhaps coconut cream (thicker than coconut milk), and/or perhaps cashew cream cheese.:) I also wonder if a vegan baking conversion chart might help gauge amounts and combos: http://www.veganbaking.net/articles/tools/baking-substitutions. Alchemy!:)

[agoodwinsmith]

I have nothing directly productive to offer, just some points to keep in mind.

Cream cheese isn't just dairy, it is structure. Even after it has been whipped and softened and whatnot, it reverts to a firm consistency that I don't think coconut milk alone will mimic. Addition of agar agar is worth experimenting with.

I have recently discovered oatmilk. It has a beautiful mouth feel and is between cream and whipping cream for consistency. I know it can be made frothy for a latte (!), so maybe also with the addition of agar agar it would form a "whipped cream"?

And, coinky dinky, I was investigating graham crackers last night, and there are several commercial vegan graham crackers.

[radiantfracture]

Graham cracker convergence!

[agoodwinsmith]

So like, hey. Here is a thing I didn't know existed. It is at Save On Foods:
https://www.saveonfoods.com/sm/delivery/rsid/975/product/chas-organic-chas-organic-coconut-whipping-cream-00806253210483

It is coconut whipping cream in a can. Is it already whipped? Can you whip it? Whip it good? Or will it slump into creamy apathy? Only adventurous souls will find out.

Thank you!

[radiantfracture]

I hope to be that soul! I will report back!

[derien]

Not a specific rec, but America's Test Kitchen has ttons of alternatives in their cookbooks for "if you doing have or don't want..."

[radiantfracture]

Thank you!